Summary
Does the idea of crypto currency freak you out or completely confuse you? My guests today are deep into the crypto world and do a deep dive with me. I a really appreciated DefiFry and Cryptopher Robin from SharedStake (sharedstake.org) for joining me in this episode! Don’t worry, I do my best to ask the questions you may have thought of yourself if you were having this explained to you, but they understand this on such a deep level they are able to step back and speak to these complex concepts in very digestible language and use really great examples and metaphors.
You can find their video podcast “DeFi Expectations” by goin to: youtube.com/channel/UCCIuLoNAKW0QOmLho1d1HOg
You can follow them on twitter at the following handles:
@skyhighdefi @defifry @cryptopherrobn @defiexpectation @sharedstakedao
Click this link to support the Podcast! https://anchor.fm/nobettertime/support Find where you can subscribe by visiting http://www.nobettertimepodcast.com
Logo created by Rufus Man (https://www.facebook.com/rufusman101) creator of Yonder Comics (https://www.patreon.com/yondercomics)
Intro song:
Cooking & Food Background Music | ITALIA by Alex-Productions | https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx0_M61F81Nfb-BRXE-SeVA
Music promoted by https://www.free-stock-music.com
Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/deed.en_US
Outro song:
Above The Clouds by | e s c p | https://escp-music.bandcamp.com
Music promoted by https://www.free-stock-music.com
Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/deed.en_US
Other music:
Ambivert by | e s c p | https://escp-music.bandcamp.comMusic promoted by https://www.free-stock-music.com
Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0)
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
Lucid Dreaming by | e s c p | https://escp-music.bandcamp.com
Music promoted by https://www.free-stock-music.com
Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0)
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ — This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app — Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/nobettertime/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/nobettertime/support
Transcription
Phil Salter 0:01
All right. Welcome to no better time. I’m Phil Salter, and I’m here with defi. Fry. And Christopher Robin. They say it right. Yep. Yeah. All right. And we were just kind of talking about who you are. And I was like, let’s just get recording, right? So Introduce yourself, you don’t mind, that might be the easiest way. Friday, you want to start off? Or do you want me to? I’ll go ahead and start I suppose. So. sci fi fry.
DefyFri 0:29
Recently, since about August, just taken an interest in the world of defy or decentralized finance. And I’ve had a background in marketing for the past 10 years. But after the pandemic, and everything, which of course, we’re still deep in the middle of
realize that I was really interested in trying something new, you know. And what I was doing before wasn’t working the same. I was trying to basically build a business around regenerative medicine and regenerative therapy and doing marketing for that. And basically, it just got killed post pandemic. So I was just like, do I want to keep going for that? Or do I want to try something new and actually go for something I’m passionate about, as a lot of other people had a lot of time on their hands, you know, not going to work? To sing back what I really want to start looking into and my interest ended up being you know, what’s going on with crypto. And I started watching this token called yearn finance Wi Fi. And I was like, What is this token? It’s like higher than Bitcoin, you know, at one point. And looking into it, it turned out that it was part of a decentralized finance protocol. And just from learning about that project, I ended up finding myself knee deep and marketing for and working with decentralized finance protocols.
Phil Salter 1:51
Wow, that’s my intro. So that’s like your job is marketing. And in doing this, it sounds like and being involved in cryptocurrency and marketing specific cryptocurrencies, I’m terrible with the terminologies to be honest with you.
DefyFri 2:07
Yes, kryptos, and more specifically defined protocols and what they can do, which is essentially replicating things you’ve treated, you’d find in traditional finance, it could be lending and borrowing, you know, trading with leverage, all kinds of different things are being recreated more efficiently and more efficiently with the Fae. And that’s basically what brought me to it is just seeing how much more efficient it is and our current financial system here in America, how much more sense it makes the roles that it plays by and how much more fair it is, than a bunch of old men sitting in a room deciding what the dollar is worth, or how the inflation is going to be, so on and so forth. Frankly, I just trust computers to do that better. And that’s what gives me the interest in it.
Phil Salter 2:53
Interesting. And what was d phi? That’s for what again, decentralized, finance, decentralized, Okay, very good. Now, it’s funny, because I was telling you guys earlier, I’m a software engineer, but I’m surrounded by all these software engineers. nirs is really into and understand crypto. And I’ve just never taken the time to like, dig into it. And I thought was really exciting to like, talk with you guys to as someone who’s essentially like learning with whoever might be listening right about what this is all about. So I’m an anomaly. I also don’t even I’m not even a gamer, right? So it’s like, I’m the I’m different than a lot of people that I work with now, and then you have crypto crypto for Robin. Yep. Like what’s, so what? How does? What’s your kind of background? And then I’m curious how you guys kind of got connected to each other. I don’t know if it goes way back. Or if it’s a newer thing,
Cryptopher Robin 3:42
it does go pretty far back, actually. So my, my history is business management and marketing. I am still I’m doing the crypto stuff and the defy stuff. I’d say about like 75%. In at this point, I still have all of my regular clients that you know, help out with normal funds and stuff like that. But basically, I had heard about Bitcoin back in early 2012. Right before I was going to buy my house and decided I’m not going to do it.
Yeah, definitely regret that one.
You know, sat on the sidelines for five more years after that kind of just wishing I had gotten in but never doing it. And then I got in in like mid 2017 just in time to get up to a decent little earning and then the crash of 2018 at the very, very start happened. And that pretty much put a halt to the market for quite a while and it went out of fashion for again, you know, another two years or so. But during that time, is when the entire d fi system was actually starting to be built up. I had stopped paying attention to it for a little while. And then once for I had gotten back into it He kept like encouraging me to get into it. And so back in January of 2021, is when I started jumping back in more on a full time basis. And at first, it was just kind of starting to experiment with everything, because there’s a lot of weird, strange, confusing things that go into this. And the more you do it, it’s like, it’s second nature. But it’s so weird at first, it’s extremely confusing. And a lot of it it’s like, you know, being on a skateboard and trying to drop in, it’s like really counterintuitive to lean in forward. And that’s gonna, like, make sure you don’t fall on your face. So it’s like, it’s kind of like that with with crypto and especially defy.
Phil Salter 5:42
Oh, that’s a that’s a really interesting analogy. I love that. Because it’s like, yeah, so you’re saying, because I haven’t followed it, something you hear about? And it seems like there was a time when he was just like a joke, right? And now it’s like, people are taking it seriously. But there was a big crash, or it really dropped in like 2018. You said,
Cryptopher Robin 6:00
VR very early 2018. And there’s there’s always, you know, there was a pretty big crash, what, like five days ago now fries? That sound about right?
DefyFri 6:10
Yeah, and I mean, the markets will do what they do. And I thought the two like had something kind of interesting. He said about these, the Ethereum founder of the veto, like theater, and I might not I might be butchering his name. But, but he had something really interesting. He said about the markets, he said that the markets will, you know, basically, that they’ll do what they’ll do if the technology isn’t there yet. You know, and when you look back at 2018, I think the problem was, there was all these speculators coming in, they didn’t have a clue what they were investing in, right? Just Oh, it’s Bitcoin, it’s whatever, and it’s gonna be the new thing, right? And so of course, once they earned a certain amount of profit, they’re going to just dump it because what do you do with it at that point, Flash forward to today, d fi is the reason that people are staying in, it’s the fact that you can, you could literally take your Bitcoin, right, and let’s say you want to borrow $20,000 against it, but you don’t want to sell any of your Bitcoin because you think it will continue to go up, you have maybe 50 grand in Bitcoin, you could stake it on compound and borrow usdc coin against it, to pay yourself alone, and you could take a loan out and buy a car with it, and you can do that with with Bitcoin and usdc is in compound. I mean, that’s, that’s fascinating, and you get a better interest rate on it, then you would get to working with a bank, you know, and that’s just, that’s just one thing that you can do. Meanwhile, your Bitcoin continues to ACU crew value. And later on, you can pay off that loan, and you’ll have way more money in value in Bitcoin, you know, these are things that you used to not be able to do.
Phil Salter 7:42
Alright, if I can follow what you’re saying. And I know you’re and you’re very, like, articulate and I say, You’re not just like me, like absorbing this, right? You’re saying that like, you can leverage the Bitcoin, you have to get actual US dollars to like, buy something, but you still, you’re saying you’re giving them you’re giving a certain worth of it, but you’re saying you can still let it grow in? It could?
DefyFri 8:06
Yes, that’s leveraging, you can use it almost for leverage trading, too. I mean, what you’re doing is you’re staking it in a protocol, like a bank, that’s the whole idea of defy, it’s decentralized. So there’s no central authority. And no, it’s like a bank with the with with no, no operators you go in, it’s an empty bank, it’s just a machine basically. And it’s scary working with that in the first place, because it doesn’t have the same interface as what you’d expect from a checking account. But you know, what’s, what’s great is you have proof protocols now that are coming out like zapper, which do give you that checking account, feeling, you know, I can look at a single screen right and the user experience for me is it looks like a checking account, I can see how much money I have in uniswap if I have money staked to there, I can see how much money I have in compound I can see how much money I have in any of these one protocols that I’m using for any purpose, right? So let’s say I have 50 grand that I’ve put into compound so that means that I’ve sent my Bitcoin into a smart contract. Basically, what I can do now with the compound protocol is I have $50,000 in collateral I could maybe borrow $20,000 in a different token usdc I’ll have an interest rate that I owe back against that of course, but I can now use that usdc in real life to do whatever I want. I can’t get my Bitcoin back though until I pay off the loan that’s of course you know the rub about it, but that’s how it works.
Phil Salter 9:36
But is it like because a Bitcoin is like a unique right like it’s obviously people have mined this Bitcoin it’s you saying this is a unique Bitcoin that I own, you’re giving it to them for a certain value as at the time you pay back that value gave it to him for but in the meantime that Bitcoin could have been raising in value, right? Once you buy Correct, yeah, correct. So you’re paying the interest of what you’re that’s the cost You’re paying them interest for this loan, right? On your bitcoins, like value, I guess, if I’m saying that right? And it could be like, blowing up and say, Okay, let me pay back the $50,000. But the what I just got back $50,000 should be worth $200,000 at this point, right? Exactly. Okay, basically,
DefyFri 10:17
you have like you have one bitcoin that’s in there and that one bitcoin could be worth 50,000. When you pay off your loan, you still have one bitcoin, but one day might be worth 100,000. And instead of having to sell, you know, at that time, what your 20,000 of Bitcoin would be just a better way they leverage your your Bitcoin for real value. And it’s once you know how to do it. Like I said, you can use it to get an auto loan, you can use it to get a mortgage mortgage, theoretically, and I’m sure in the near future, they will find ways to make it even more direct than that, and ways that it’ll finally be recognized as the same as a financial instrument like a loan.
Phil Salter 10:56
It’s really cool. Thank you. I’ve never had it like explained to me that well. So I appreciate.
Cryptopher Robin 11:02
I think about it kind of the same way like you could you could pull like money out of your, your house. That’s more
Phil Salter 11:08
I’ve done that I have it’s funny, because well, not to cut you off. But I will. I actually got this he lock all in place, because I was thinking about maybe investing in like a rental property. And I decided now I’m not going to do it. But I have this HELOC sitting there that I could potentially use if I found the reason. I don’t know if I will. But you don’t mean like, yeah, so I understand that concept. You can say, hey, my house is theoretically worth this much. And so I can serve as soon as I can get in the loan. Right? That’s kind of what you’re getting at. It’s very similar. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like, I mean, yeah, like one.
DefyFri 11:40
Go ahead. Oh, I was just gonna say like one example of what you could do if you wanted to do the ultra DGN thing, which isn’t something I would do. But if you just want to just go for it, right? Take all the risks possible. You could say like, Oh, you know, right now, I know I have $30,000 of equity in my house, right? You could take that $30,000 out, you can invest it and in aetherium, right. Ethereum could go up to double that maybe six months a year from now, who knows? Right? But then you take that money, borrow the amount to pay back the loan, and yet use now have $60,000 Well, $30,000 less the debt and collateral, you know, there’s all these these different ways you can do it.
Phil Salter 12:20
Like use different avenues like so you’re saying let’s say it’s raised a certain value, so like, hey, if I can get a hold of like, $30,000 any way to get this Bitcoin back? It’s a no brainer, because it’s worth whatever amount, right? Is that you combine the dip with it? Yeah. Interesting. Okay, well, what were you saying for me? Sorry, cryptographer. Sorry. I feel bad now, I was trying to be funny, like, Oh, well interrupt you. Go ahead.
Cryptopher Robin 12:47
Yes, all I was saying was, you know, it’s kind of like, if I was to borrow money against my house, you know, during just in the last like, when I checked like a week ago, my house price had gone up almost $30,000 so it’s like, if I took a loan out I’d still own my house, but I can take that and invest it and then in the meantime, I pay back that loan and you know, by the time I do my house has increased $100,000 in value. So it’s similar like with different defy tokens and things like that.
Phil Salter 13:17
That’s a really good comparison I like at least for me like feels like a tangible thing to connect it to
Cryptopher Robin 13:23
I try to do that as much as possible with people who don’t understand like crypto and defy because I know when Frye was trying to talk to me about it I was just like what like what are you talking about?
DefyFri 13:37
Anything like you can do you can even do leveraged trading with that I won’t go too into the weeds about that I was just gonna say like that’s only one particular use case that right i mean people are doing pretty much everything yeah seen with stocks or other types of trading they’re doing with defy now.
Phil Salter 13:56
Yeah, it sounds like it’s being realized that this well what is this it’s just a concept it’s it’s people are accepting it just like There used to be a different a lot of different types of currency right in the United States or in particular, like different states or different towns and eventually did something came more centralized I guess, as you’d call it, right? And it’s like that became accepted as this is like has value and as this is it has accepted value then it’s that’s how it’s kind of spreading pretty rapidly, right? This acceptance is kind of blowing up is as far as I can tell. It isn’t that that brings up
Cryptopher Robin 14:29
a good point two, it probably be a good idea to talk about the difference between something like Bitcoin and the difference between something like aetherium because that delves into the difference between coin Oh, yeah.
Phil Salter 14:41
But basically the point,
Cryptopher Robin 14:44
the way that I like to describe the difference is, Bitcoin is a store of value. It doesn’t have a huge amount of use case right now. And that’s why I mean there’s there’s more coming up more frequently. But as of right now, the best way to consider Bitcoin is like a digital store of value like gold. It’s like digital gold. So just the same way where you couldn’t take a gold bar into the supermarket and try and you know, pay for your groceries that everyone realizes and understands it has value, but there’s not a good mechanism of exchange in the general community.
Phil Salter 15:21
It’s like a more of a raw form is kind of what you’re saying. Pretty much. Yeah. But like
Cryptopher Robin 15:25
when you get to something like aetherium. The way I like to describe aetherium is each blockchain. Ethereum is a blockchain. There’s other ones that are like coming up like salona by Nance, smart chain, these are all specific block chains. And on these block chains, people are building other applications. So a lot of the stuff that fry was just listing off previously, those are applications that are actually built on the Ethereum network. And when I’m talking about aetherium, and the other blockchains, I kind of like to think of them as come like a country. So right now, when it comes to it, a theory is like the United States of the crypto world. All of the biggest, hugest, most powerful protocols are being built on the Ethereum network, kind of the same way that Amazon is built in the United States, or Walmart was built in the United States. The same thing is happening with a theory and basically all these projects are being built with inside that ecosystem. And then the same thing is also happening with the up and comers, like salona and binance. Smart chain, which is now the number of essentially the number two spot when it comes to blockchains.
Phil Salter 16:41
Yeah, framework, in a way is what you’re saying. Right? Exactly.
Cryptopher Robin 16:45
Yeah. And then like the currency itself, just like we use the United States dollar in this country, when you are operating in the Ethereum country, you’re going to be using eath or ether.
Phil Salter 16:58
Okay. I’m curious, when you say blockchain, can you kind of just like, is there a way to quickly kind of explain what that means? You want to take that fry?
DefyFri 17:08
Yeah. So I think it’s kind of easier to kind of think of them like networks and the way the different ones operate. So for me, like the difference between Bitcoin and aetherium is Bitcoin is on the old proof of work system. So basically, what that means is, every time a transaction happens, it’ll compute whether it’s valid and whether it needs to be added to the blockchain, based on the amount of work that’s been done on it. So you can imagine the more transactions that are being added to this public ledger that makes up Bitcoin, right? The more inefficient it’s going to become in terms of energy use, because the blockchain, the ledger is getting longer and longer, and it takes more and more work to generate more Bitcoin on the blockchain. But that’s why you have the argument. Like Ilan musk recently said, oh, we’re not taking Bitcoin for Tesla anymore. It’s not energy efficient, even though I think Musk is blowing a lot of hot air just to move his own agenda, I think. But still, that is a valid thing that he’s recently brought up. And really the smart resolution to that as aetherium, which is actually moving to a proof of stake. So similar to Bitcoin aetherium had the old proof of work system, but what’s what’s happening with the might with aetherium 2.0 is the move to proof of stake. Now, the best way I can explain proof of stake is rather than more and more transactions being added in this proof of work old system. It’s basically there’s a set of validators. Right? So imagine 100 people are staking their aetherium. And a smart contract, right? That staking Ethereum is being used to validate transactions on the network. And because it’s a smaller subset, rather than, you know, all the transactions that have ever been done in the history of time, it’s less, it’s less energy consumption doesn’t consume as much energy, it’s more efficient. So that’s basically why these other kryptos are coming out. They have different use cases. Maybe they are governance tokens, which you could kind of think of like stock almost options for a company. They have all these different use cases, but essentially, they’re built on the same kind of technology of blockchain technology, I guess.
Okay. Yeah, and the best I can speak to it.
Cryptopher Robin 19:25
The governance tokens that for I just mentioned, that’s a big part of defy, and a big part of basically what drives a lot of the value and profit potential. So basically, what the governance tokens are, depending on the protocol, it’s like giving you actual voting power, depending on how much of them you control. And depending on where you’re staking or earning, you’ll earn additional tokens usually on top of like the interest rate that you’re being paid. And then with that, you actually have the voting power because this is a decent To realize thing, this is about basically taking the power away from large scale institutions like Bank of America, Wells Fargo, you know, the large scale stock trading and things like that. And it’s about putting that power back in the hands of the people. So basically any good protocol, which a lot of the time is going to be referred to a Dao, which stands for a decentralized autonomous organization, you’re going to be using those governance tokens to actually basically decide you know, how much interest you’re going to be paying people, what kind of direction the project is going to be going in, in the future. So there’ll be proposals, sometimes from the community, sometimes from the developers, and you know, various things like that. And then those are written up and voted on by the community who owns a stake in the organization.
DefyFri 20:52
Okay, of course, you know, every project is different, and some are better than others. But what’s really unique about the culture that’s surrounding this, this this type of D, centralized, living, breathing thing is, you know, these projects will come right, like, badger was one example right now, shared stake is another right, and they’ll have an initiative that may centralize around one idea, you know, for shared stake, it’s making eath 2.0, staking, you know, easier and more profitable for people who want to participate in it. You know, these group, these organizations will pop up, they’ll have a couple of lead developers that are behind the project, people start using the project, they gain trust, and with it over time, they’ll have proposals come out to make audits, you know, for instance, to prove that the smart contract is safe, because people are putting their money into these, like their banks, right. So they want to know that the protocols are safe. So any serious project will usually at some point or another, have the community vote on a proposal to do some kind of audit of the code, but that manages the protocol. That’s one way that the community gets involved. Another way is the community members who have previous experience in banking and finance or whatever, they will emerge and help decide governance actions, right, they’ll say, I wrote this proposal, you know, they’ll write it all professionally, like a finance major would, you know, we want to do admissions this way. And this pool for this reason, you know, and they’ll spell out all that stuff. And everyone does. It’s just all these roles come into play of like a marketing manager of an operations person of a developer of someone in support, these roles kind of spontaneously come from nowhere, people are just participating in the community and becoming, becoming a part of it, you know, so it truly does belong to them. It’s bizarre watching it happen. And it’s definitely uncomfortable at times, because it’s a very new thing. But it’s amazing to watch it happen because people are incentivized, and it’s very different way than they wouldn’t be from traditional business.
Phil Salter 23:03
Yeah, if I’m following, like, these communities, you’re talking about, kind of like, looking at, like, it’s a bank, right. So like, if the theory, right is, is the the currency or working with this is like, a way to access purchase and invest in it is going through one of these communities. Is that what uh, is that correct?
DefyFri 23:24
Correct. And they have different value that’s provided, for instance, they might have a pool that facilitates trades between Bitcoin and aetherium. Right, like uniswap protocol.
Phil Salter 23:36
Yeah, like a banker let you like, you know, I need some yen. Let me trade this out. Right. Right. It’s working with the currency. There’s different banks. Yeah. Okay.
DefyFri 23:46
Yes. Just like just like a bank. How do you think they’re able to facilitate those trades when you wire money or do transfers it’s based on the liquidity that they have within the bank, it’s it’s very similar to how these protocols work. It’s just okay. It’s not a bunch of greedy bankers putting their hands all over it. That’s the main difference. It’s these people who are geniuses and code development, but don’t get me wrong, you have to do your own research you have to dive in to every project you have to know what you’re looking for, for sure to make sure you don’t just send your money to someone who’s going to run off with it. But if you know what to look for, I mean, this is something me and Robin do 24 seven basically now it’s it’s one of the most exciting it is in my opinion, the biggest opportunity that’s happening right now in America at least
Phil Salter 24:30
Wow, that’s amazing. So it’s like even if like you said Do your research and who your what your were dealing with. Because even let’s say they even have good intentions. You just want to you want to be based on solid. Everything right? development and yeah, bed management, right. Like if it’s even if someone if they don’t, if you’re with a committee doesn’t know what they’re doing, then like you can hurt you. It sounds like
DefyFri 24:53
correct. There has to be really real utility to the project and also the right team members to make could happen. And I’ve talked a lot about compound. But probably the best protocol to mention that’s made so many things easier, is uniswap. It used to be really difficult to try to buy bitcoin. And it used to be even harder to try to trade it. But now you can easily switch swap between aetherium Bitcoin and all these other tokens using the uniswap protocol, it’s able to do that because of those liquidity pools I was talking to you about before, those same liquidity pools that can be used for leverage trading for borrowing, lending, whatever you want, could be you just go into a website and saying, okay, I bought some mysterium on Coinbase. I’ve sent that Ethereum to my private wallet. Now, without me going back to Coinbase. Without the US government knowing about it, about everybody happened to see you know, I what I’m going to do is I’m going to go on uniswap, I’m going to take from my private wallet, and I’m going to trade this aetherium for usdc for Bitcoin for whatever I want, or maybe I want to invest in a D five protocol. And all of this is tracked through, you know, your private wallet and your contributions to that blockchain.
Phil Salter 26:09
Well, you’re saying us, you’re you’re referring to like, like, you like dollar bills like US dollars when you say that correct? That’s how I’m understanding it. Like trading?
DefyFri 26:20
Can you see me? Well, they have a token that’s called usdc. Which Okay, stable coin that’s pegged to the US dollar. So okay,
Phil Salter 26:28
I didn’t know that. Yeah,
Cryptopher Robin 26:29
there’s a few of them. Now, actually,
Phil Salter 26:32
I see you’re talking about actual, like, cash money, but you’re saying essentially is tied to it. But it’s still like a digital kind of currency in a way.
DefyFri 26:41
Yeah, like it’s kind of swap. Like if you’re on Coinbase, like, for example, and you try to swap between Ethereum and usdc, you’re going to pay a huge premium on it. Because for one, you don’t really own the currency while you’re on Coinbase. It’s basically like you have a ticket for it. And you own that you have a registered ticket for that amount of aetherium on their network that they hold for you. So if you try to trade between tokens, you pay a high fee. But let’s say you just say, Okay, I’ve got 5000 aetherium. From Coinbase, you can send that to a private wallet, which is just basically like a, an account that you manage, it’s only has an address tied to it. Nobody knows that it exists, it’s purely yours, you created it on meta mask or some other wallet provider, right, you can send that $5,000. And you can trade it through other tokens and pay a lower fee. And also, every time you trade, it isn’t getting reported through the coin base app, because the coin base app is a centralized exchange, versus you having your own private wallet, which is private, and you’re working through a decentralized exchange, like Yoona swap that isn’t reporting your trades. So it’s basically a privacy means. And that’s like another use case. I mean, we just interviewed somebody last week, that was for a secret network. And what they do is, you know, of course, all this stuff is private, you don’t know who I am, except by my wallet address, right? You just see that money was sent to this wallet address. To figure out who I am, then you can figure out though how much money I have, because you look up my address, and you can see exactly what I have. Because the blockchain is public, right. But they have this organization that’s around now called secret network that you can actually put your money into some type of protocol with secret network, and it’s private. Now you can do trades on their network pay less and gas. And it’s not reported. It’s not visible to anyone else. You know, this is just another use case from a different protocol that exists. Did I say that? Okay, Robin, do you think you could add any clarity to anything etc? That are
Cryptopher Robin 28:45
basically Yeah, basically secret just, they they add an extra layer of privacy, just because the blockchain itself, even though like I was saying, it’s it’s a private thing, you only see a wallet address. But the thing is, you can track whenever anything is changing hands. There’s actually something that I follow on Twitter, that’s called whale alert. And it basically is hooked up to let everyone know on Twitter whenever people are trading large amounts of cryptocurrency. So you can see when people are like playing with $100 million worth of crypto transferring from one place to the other. So it’s like, if you figure out who owns that, there’s not really that much privacy, you can even keep track of specific wallets on a regular basis. So there’s like, there’s the layer of privacy of not really knowing who it belongs to, but at the same time, still being able to keep track of their wallet.
Phil Salter 29:39
Interesting. There’s a layer of accountability, but there’s still this privacy like you. You can tie it to that wallet, but you don’t really know say you don’t know who that actually is.
Cryptopher Robin 29:49
Yeah, but then of course, you know, if you were to ever pinpoint who that is, there’s no this is one of the reasons why a lot of people in the defy space are anonymous. Because you get like some of the developers who, you know, if somebody found out, you know that they have a large amount of money, they could easily be, you know, somebody could try and like, kidnap their family, somebody could try and like, you know, like, there’s there’s people who’ve gotten death threats, because you know, the token price goes up a little bit or goes down a little bit, you know, wow.
DefyFri 30:23
So they want to be anonymous to keep it simpler, basically, you know, so it’s tough, because when you you see some of these project projects, they are led by anonymous communities, you know, by anonymous developers, and you think to yourself, well, should I trust the protocol? And I don’t even know who’s managing it? Well, you know, maybe, depending on if you read other information about it. But a lot of these developers are choosing to go that way, just because who knows what’ll happen with their taxes? Who knows what will happen with the legalities of what we’re even doing right now, it could change in a number of years, and people who directly participate in building these protocols, you know, you know, they don’t know what’s going to happen in the future. So it’s just a way of covering themselves, basically.
Phil Salter 31:06
Yeah. And it’s like you said, this is very exciting space. It’s almost like the Wild West in a way, right? Like, it’s just kind of, it’s evolving before your eyes. Like, you don’t know where it’s gonna go. But it is, yeah,
Cryptopher Robin 31:17
it really, you know, think of it the same way that like, we would have looked at the Internet 25 years ago, where it’s like, it’s still even though, you know, Bitcoin was created in 2009. So the whole time that I was on the sidelines, I’m always like, well, bitcoins $100 now, it’s too late bitcoins, you know, 150 Well, it’s 300 it’s way too late now. And it’s kind of the same thing. It’s like, you know, I came in full time, basically, in 2021. So, I’m like, 12 years late,
Phil Salter 31:50
but you still don’t think like, you haven’t missed the boat. Right? So I was gonna say, like, if you don’t make sense,
Cryptopher Robin 31:56
yeah. It’s like, if you look at the Internet, 12 years into it existing, and you say, at that point, oh, I’m too late to get involved. How would you look now? is a good this interesting point. Yeah. And it’s it really is like that this is this is completely going to change everything. And not just crypto. But like blockchain in general, the technology is basically going to revolutionize the entire world, just the same way the internet, did.
Phil Salter 32:23
I cuz that’s, you bring up an interesting point I was thinking of is, like someone’s listening to this. And they have, they have never even like considered actually being in a I’m in cryptocurrency. Or maybe they have, but they’re just like, oh, like it’s too late. Or it’s just way too expensive or whatever. Like, how does someone gets started? Or what should they do? And like? And what’s the motivation to do it? Like, what’s the benefits they’ll see are in your opinion,
DefyFri 32:50
earning better interest than a bank is a good starting one.
Cryptopher Robin 32:54
Yeah. And that’s a really, really easy one. I mean, like the the types of interest rates that you can
DefyFri 33:00
make, what are we talking? Like psych? 100 300%?
Cryptopher Robin 33:05
Yeah. So like, here’s a crappy return in crypto is if you were to take like your USD and just convert it to a stable coin. And then you could earn like, 4% on that. Just sitting there. And like with that alone, that’s like, like I said, the crap like
DefyFri 33:22
100 times what a bank offers. Exactly, yeah.
Cryptopher Robin 33:25
So right off the bat, you’re making like way more than a bank would ever offer you. And you’re actually hedging against inflation as well. Because you’re pulling your money out of the actual money supply, where they’re going to continuously keep printing more all the time, you’re gonna, you’re gonna keep deflating the value of your dollar, if you just let it sit there. I’ve got money sitting in a safe right now. And every day, I’m like, I feel like it’s just go grab the shit and toss it into crypto. And of course, it’s nice to have some Fiat sitting around. But at the same time, like, the longer that sits there, especially with how much money they’ve essentially technically printed, during COVID, you know, the the supply has been horribly inflated.
Phil Salter 34:06
It’s a it’s honestly, like losing value sitting there. Exactly.
Cryptopher Robin 34:10
So you’re actually you’re actually making money in two ways right off the bat, just by taking your Fiat and swapping it out for a stable coin. And that doesn’t even include actually trying to earn anything with a coin that has the potential to be in a speculator market, which would be you know, basically anything besides a stable coin.
Phil Salter 34:32
So you’re saying like the most safe option is in itself, like a 4%. return? I just sitting there. Yeah, they’re saying, well, that’s
Cryptopher Robin 34:39
like a garbage return. That’s the absolute crap in this market. On average, like with with shared stake, for instance, right now, if you were to just like if you were to get some of their token and just stake that the interest rate on that is 80% right now.
Phil Salter 34:58
I mean, obviously this this is is a variable thing. It’s not like a set thing. It’s like It’s like investing in the stock market, you can, there’s no guaranteed return, right? But it’s like,
DefyFri 35:06
that’s where the whys can vary as other people enter the pools because basically like this is one of the reasons governance happens. And people need to make ongoing changes to the protocol, they might have a missions that have a certain pool paying at, you know, 40%, but after several millions, billions, whatever goes into it, probably millions, but at some point, the return is going to diminish, right? And it’s going to go down to 3020, whatever, because there’s more people in the pool, sucking up those rewards. So, you know, there are things like that to take account of what I’d say the like anybody trying to get in, is first really just find a use case around one of the blue chips, either Bitcoin or aetherium. In my view, Ethereum has more upside all the defy protocols being built on it. The use cases demonstrated with those I’m a big aetherium believer, but you know, invest in one of the blue chips and then get to a protocol like shared stake that allows you to stake your aetherium in a contract, even if he can earn four or 567 percent on it. But you can earn definitely more than that with staking with shared stake, like why not do that versus just having the Ethereum sit in your wallet and gain nothing? Or have your cash sitting in your bank earning you nothing. Yeah, cerium has outperformed Bitcoin this past Bull Run, and I think it will continue to so if you can find a good dip to buy in. And I guess that would be in my opinion, a reasonable starting point for somebody but not financial advice, of course.
Phil Salter 36:39
Oh, yeah. So I was about to say like, just I like, yeah, we’re not financial advisors. These I’m not, I’m assuming you guys aren’t Right. Yeah. This is radically new. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So this is all just theoretical stuff. But it sounds like you need to get a hold of some aetherium. first before you went to shared steak. Yes.
Cryptopher Robin 37:00
Yeah. The thing to remember too, when it kind of comes back to what I was talking about, about having the currency to operate in that country, you know, what I was saying? You You can’t operate on anything that was built on the Ethereum network without having some of the currency to pay your bills, essentially, just the same? Yeah. I yeah. And I, you know, just like I couldn’t go to the grocery store and have no money to buy my groceries, I’d have to have somebody that used
Phil Salter 37:30
I guess I was thinking of is like maybe shirts. Take it. First of all, I think you guys have a stake in shirt steak. Or you’re a sir. That’s something you guys also are promoting? Correct. So I want to like, just make that clear. This is something you guys yeah, I have invest it interest in doesn’t mean it’s not good. I towns, I’ve actually been following you guys on like, discord, and you have a lot of great information. And you’re very open. And there’s a lot of communication. And it seems like there’s a lot of like, democracy around it as far as like people’s, the people involved and, and their feedback, correct?
Cryptopher Robin 38:02
Yeah, we really try our best. And like I said that that kind of comes back around to keeping this in a decentralized fashion, which all the people from the Dallas, we really try our very best to keep open communication. You know, I always tell everyone in there, I’m like, if you have anything to say, Please, you know, send me a message. I’m open to it. Like, I’m here for you guys. We want to hear your voices, we want to know what’s important to you. So we can shape the project around what everyone wants it to be.
DefyFri 38:31
And we don’t I guess, acts to Yeah, just the other thing I was gonna say to the note about what what we do with defy expectations. It’s very fact based, you know, so I could sit here and I could tell you, I’m super excited about aetherium and what I’m doing or what would make sense to me. But at the end of the day, like we don’t come on with a video about any project, even if we love them. And we’re not just like, Oh, this is great. This is gonna go to 100 tomorrow, like oh, bye, bye bye. Like that’s not who we are. We look at a project and we want to intellectually understand what it’s contributing to the community. What’s the value? Who’s behind it? What have they demonstrated in terms of trust in the defy space. And I think that gives us a very an authenticity to our brand, like we covered shared steak before we started working with them. And they were actually our first episode, our very first podcast, we wanted to learn more about them. We did our first episode with them, and then we got hired after the fact. So yeah, of course, we’re biased, you know, everybody, we tend to follow our passions and we feel like that comes through in our channel our passion for what we do.
Phil Salter 39:34
Yeah, I mean, you guys interview interviewed people, even just like an artist like the the protest. He did artwork as a protest and it was a yes, Naft kind of thing he was doing right. Yeah, the nF nF T. I was like, didn’t feel right. We got to know which is really cool. So again, But I guess my question is this. Let’s say I’m someone who says, You know what, I want to dip my toes. I have, let’s say $30 a week, you know, that I want to put towards, you know, let’s say, getting some Ethereum and potentially using shared steak for instance, to you know, really the grow, right? What would someone like would I do?
DefyFri 40:28
I really do is can you do anything is that is that even worth doing on Ethereum? On Ethereum not so much, okay, because sometimes your transaction fees will be that much. So for really, for you to put some money on a on a chain into it to be worthwhile, usually you want $1,000 or more, at least,
Cryptopher Robin 40:46
the abs, I usually tell people, if you don’t have at least 1000, don’t even bother trying to come into the Ethereum defy space. that’s gotten a little better recently. But basically, the reason that they’re creating v2 right now, is because of the fact that so many people are using this network that wasn’t really meant to scale the way it needed to. Right, you’re basically trying to like, take a city’s sewer system water and put it through a hose. So like, there’s way too much trying to go through this network at once, just because of how much it’s grown. And so right now, you’re going to be paying a huge amount of a premium to do anything. And this was one of the things that was very hard for me when I was getting in is, you know, when you look at something like Venmo, or PayPal, or you know, Zell, those are all free to use, or very inexpensive, for the most part. And yet, when I came in, it was somewhere between like 40 to $60, every time you wanted to move something around. Now in doing that, it doesn’t matter if you’re moving $30 or $30 million, you’re still making the same ledger mark, essentially. So that’s why I always tell people, I’m like realistically, even coming in with $1,000, unless you’re going to do one thing, like, you know, you’re going to buy your aetherium, you’re going to come over to like uniswap, or something like that, trade it for Sgt, which is the name of shared stakes token, and then stake that that’s still a couple processes right there, you’re going to have to do the trade for the swapping. So you’re gonna have to pay for the staking. So they eat gas. Yeah. And like, so every time you do that you’re spending your aetherium as well.
Unknown Speaker 42:34
Yeah.
Phil Salter 42:36
To your potential growth, right, exactly.
Cryptopher Robin 42:39
Like, you got to make sure that like the return that you’re looking at, like, you know, if you’re going to be making 80% return, and you put in, you know, $1,000, it’ll probably be worth it over time. But you know, a couple of weeks ago, or a week ago, like when the crash had happened, the gas prices were up to like 400 a way, which is the measurement of eath, basically. And that basically means that like, people were spending probably upwards of $200 or more just to sell their stuff at a huge loss. When everyone was panicking, and there’s, the only reason you’re going to be panicking is because you put in more than you can afford to lose. Yeah, and that you are in this for the long term.
Phil Salter 43:24
It’s like the stock market, right? Like, that’s the worst time to sell. You don’t sell when it’s like, you know, plummeting, unless you really don’t have a she completely have lost faith. And you think it’s only getting right here, you know?
Cryptopher Robin 43:35
Yeah, that’s, that’s exactly when you should be buying, you know, yeah. And the prices dropped so low. I was just like, telling everyone I’m like right now, right now is that time, if you haven’t gotten in yet, the prices are reasonable. Right now, the gas isn’t reasonable. But just to purchase, it was very reasonable. And that turned around within about two days. Meanwhile, the prices of some stuff had dropped like 75 or 90%. During that time, and now they’re back up again, not all the way we know this is a very recent thing. But if you’re in this for the long term, the trajectory is upward. And the same way that you know, investing in companies like that do online sales, when that was first a thing. The trajectory is upward no matter how, you know how many times like things fluctuate, the trajectory is going up. And this is a you know, it’s a world changing technology. So doing the research and investing in the right products, it’s gonna it’s going to work out well. Because these are only growing things are only getting better. And the cool thing about d phi as well, most of the time, everyone is working together. It’d be like if you know if Bank of America and Wells Fargo and you know US Bank, we’re all collectively working together to make things better for everyone who uses them,
Phil Salter 44:56
not just for themselves, right? Yeah, if there’s another people
Cryptopher Robin 45:04
problem that’s noticed, or, you know, two things don’t operate well together, the development teams will usually come together and be like, okay, we should do this. So we can make these operate well together. So it’s a very new space. And you’ll, you’ll see a lot of stuff that like, is counter intuitive a lot of the time, like I was saying earlier, but everyone’s working together collectively to make it better.
Phil Salter 45:29
Yeah, that’s interesting. I, I. So it sounds like First of all, you really need like a chunk of cash, if you really want to, like do this right, and make it something that makes sense. Like at least $1,000. It’s not something like for me, I’ve been doing this thing where I just put in our No, maybe I’m curious, we think about this, I, I use Robin Hood to buy stocks, maybe you think that’s insane. I have some people I work with who are really on, I was sort of looking for on a principal level, like our kids, Robin, because of what happened with GameStop. And then not letting people either buy or sell, I can’t remember. But, um, I use that I put $30 in there a week just to kind of like learn and kind of see what I can do with it. Yeah, that’s why I brought the $30 marks, it’s like, it’s not that much, right. But you know, it’s still something that you can kind of play with and see what kind of growth you get. I’m really playing with the percentages, because I figure $1 in a stock, whatever percentage, I get that if I was a million dollars, like, hey, it’s still the same. It’s still the same risk. Maybe like you have more at stake. You don’t I mean, I but um,
DefyFri 46:35
because the fees, even on Coinbase, I think you’d probably want to do your buys bigger than $30. Realistically,
Phil Salter 46:40
like that’s what it sounds like.
DefyFri 46:42
Yeah, but even if it was like $100, you did want monthly or every couple months or something that would probably make sense. But like actual investment in d phi, which is like basically requiring gas and locking your crypto into contracts. That’s really not possible on the Ethereum blockchain, with a small budget now, but it is getting better. Like there is of course, the coming of eath 2.0, which is going to make things a lot faster, as opposed to, but there’s also other chains as well. I know Solana is one that a lot of NFT projects are choosing just because the energy consumption is it’s a lot more efficient and less expensive to for them to do the drop because of that efficiency. So but there’s, there’s lots of that, like, like, Robin was saying, if there’s a need, there’s people coming to fill the void. But the space is so positive. I mean, one of the other things we haven’t even talked about this yet, that benefits participating in defy over traditional corporations, I guess, you know, the traditional environment you might be used to, and working in corporate America is people share everything, you know, it’s not like, it’s not like we have trade secrets, you know, we have our code is is available, it’s on a GitHub, you can go look at it, right and take through it, you can actually, and in fact, the code is open to the communities, oftentimes, because it comes from anonymous developer, and they’ll say, judge me by the quality of my code, you know, not who I am. But like, thing apart my code. And there are people who have propped up just to do code audits, you know what I mean? And they’ll do them for free. Sometimes it’s crazy, like, just the the, the mentality of the people participating in this. It’s very much like an idea of like, if you’re familiar with the secret, it’s very much like a method of thought of abundance. You don’t any Yes, yes, yes, me and competitiveness, it’s very different.
Phil Salter 48:44
I just have very positive. I just recorded something this morning. I kind of sometimes I want to legally record just some thoughts like not interviewing someone. I talked about this concept of abundance and scarcity today. So yeah, totally.
Cryptopher Robin 48:57
Real, real quick to get back to your question, if somebody did want to invest a small amount, you could still just buy into a token or a coin, like buying some aetherium or buying some binance. And then just letting it sit there, you’re not going to earn like anything, or depending on the exchange that you did purchase it from, you might earn a small amount. But you could still do that. And then you’re not trying to like actually go and spend it, you’re not going to be doing anything like crazy, but you can still, you know, put in a small amount, because over time that will most likely result in some kind of net positivity.
Phil Salter 49:37
Yeah, I mean, honestly, it sounds like I use Robin Hood, right? Because it’s just the barrier of entry is very low, right? I can deposit money I even have access to up to $1,000 a day instantly to then like invest. It sounds like the barrier of entry is higher right now. But it sounds like there’s things in place to make that lower as far as not as expensive as far as transactions potentially is what I’m kind of thinking. From this, but also, yeah, just accessibility 2.0 Yeah. So that’s, that’s exciting for me to hear. As far as like a way to kind of get in that barrier of entry, not that it’s not worth it at the higher level, but it’s, uh, I think it will more people will get involved, especially in the beginning, I think once you really prove the concept to yourself, you have more faith and confidence, you can really start maybe going more aggressively with the numbers, right? Yeah,
DefyFri 50:27
well, when you, when you take money off Coinbase I was just gonna say like, that’s a whole different experience to like when you’re working with a centralized exchange, like Coinbase. And even if you finally said, I’m going to pay $1,000, to buy this aetherium. I mean, that’s a certain point of unbelief and say, you know, but when you first send your money off the exchange to a private wallet, you just set up with meta mask, that doesn’t look like a banking account that didn’t ask you who you were when you signed it up. You’re not going to feel right about sending that money there the first time.
Phil Salter 50:58
But that’s a counterintuitive thing, right?
DefyFri 51:01
Yes. And then you lean into it, and you do it. And then next thing, you know, you’re staking with a protocol and you’ve sent your aetherium to a smart contract. It’s like okay, now you’re generating a return here. It’s just it’s something you got to step slowly into, I think is whatever. Yeah.
Phil Salter 51:14
do with it. That makes sense. I mean, honestly, though, I asked you this. So in Robin Hood, I bought, like, some weeks back like $100 with a Dogecoin. What are your thoughts on that coin? You haven’t brought that up? I must say, I’m curious what you think? Oh, I guess for me, that says enough, right there.
Cryptopher Robin 51:33
here’s, here’s the weird thing about decentralized financing crypto. And, you know, we’re I feel like I’m learning stuff every single day. And I feel like I will be forever. But it’s like, it’s a meme coin. So yeah, we know use case, it’s just it’s a joke, it literally was created as a joke. And yet, it has billions of dollars in value locked at this point. So no matter how stupid it was, when it came out, am I stupid for thinking that it’s completely worthless at this point and brushing it off? And that maybe you don’t know until late? I would say that it would be ridiculous for me to not take it seriously at this point. And what that proves to me is that this world of decentralized finance is weird. And it doesn’t make sense. A lot of the time, it doesn’t make sense that a joke project that’s a meme would suddenly be like, you know, in the top four or five valuations of all of these projects when it has essentially no use case. But yeah, I mean, what’s the problem?
DefyFri 52:36
I think you’ve got a couple issues there. I mean, you know, what bugs me about Dogecoin or whatever? Is that I think it takes a kind of take some of the credibility away a little bit. It’s my only that’s your right, is you have people who want to come in for something serious, it’s going to really transform like our financial landscape because it needs it. It really does. You know, I’m not afraid to say that needs to change like it doesn’t make sense. And we have, you know, Ilan musk goofing around acting like, okay, Tesla’s gonna accept Bitcoin. Oh, now, he’s not gonna accept Bitcoin, because it’s not energy efficient enough. And oh, Dogecoin you know what I’m saying? Like, he hasn’t done like, come on, really to jump from Bitcoin to Dogecoin. The reasonable jump would be, okay. Bitcoin might be might have some issues with energy consumption. But let’s take a look at aetherium which is moving to a proof of stake. You know what I mean? That would have been a serious reason for him to make that change, but just come in and be like, Oh, yeah. Dogecoin Yeah, that’s, that’s the people’s currency. It’s just a joke to him. And he’s using bull and financial markets to change and people to lose money and gain money. Like, it’s a really bizarre level of power for a person to have. And it’s problematic. And when it’s used to promote something with a dog’s face on it, it just pisses me off. That’s my,
Phil Salter 53:57
yeah, I see what you’re saying. It’s something you take very seriously and to see kind of be made a joke of where it’s like, and I can see that point, I can also see the other side where it’s like, hey, people thought like, Bitcoin was just a joke. Obviously, it wasn’t really based on a joke specifically, right? That’s the difference, I think. But I saw you’re saying like, this is something you you like you really care about, and you take seriously and for this to be kind of, but it did kind of it that was really interesting. Elon Musk goes on to Saturday Night Live. And there was always talk about how that’s really gonna make like, Dogecoin like, you know, go to the moon, break $1 whatever, you know, and I’m like, that’s insane, that like this guy, who just like kind of, like, likes Dogecoin right. He’s like, you know, smart and he has a company but he’s not really it’s not he’s not connected to it other than just kind of like he’s just interested in it right as my understanding and that that could potentially affect its price and affect all this stuff. But is that really that different than any other random thing people hear rumors about companies and then all sudden it gets more value or drops value is all based on like feelings. Isn’t that just what all this stuff is? Anyways?
DefyFri 55:04
It is it’s just disappointing when people don’t use their influence to actually start a real dialogue. That’s Yeah, issue with it. And he has the power to do that. And yeah, he, he has done so a little bit with Bitcoin and I just hope he goes more that route than being like, Oh, I’m going to support Dogecoin. Now because I don’t think it’s serious to him. I mean, but the issue is, like, at its core, it still is the right technology. I mean, I’m sure Dogecoin is a fork of the same type of block, basically a copy of some other type of code that’s been used in other blockchains. So I mean, it sound in a way it could be used in occur as a currency. And it might be more efficient in certain ways than Bitcoin. But was it ever developed with that purpose? as it does it have other people building networks on top of it with the use cases that are seen by aetherium? No, do I think Musk is too dumb to know that? No. So he’s basically taking this opportunity has been making a mockery of it. That’s, that’s my opinion. So
Phil Salter 56:01
very much just like a grab for attention. Like he wants to be a rock star. And it’s just a way to kind of Yeah, and he already knows. So what does he need? Yeah. Yes. That’s interesting. I just curious cuz you guys hadn’t brought it up. But I was like, that’s, and I kind of figured something like this. Yeah. But I mean, honestly, like, my whole plan was, I put $100 into this thing. And literally, I’m not gonna buy or sell any more of it for two or three years, and just see where it’s at. It’s more of more of an experiment than anything. You know, I mean, who knows? But, yeah, we’re
Cryptopher Robin 56:36
gonna say, Sorry, timing is a big thing here. But what I was gonna say is, you know, in relation to Elan Musk, like the reason that the the crash happened recently, is in kind of relation. There’s a couple reasons. But when Ilan musk announced that Tesla had purchased $1.5 billion worth of Bitcoin that began the Bull Run hardcore, of, you know, the last couple months. So then, a little bit after that after you know, because whatever happens with Bitcoin will pretty much drive the rest of the market. If something’s going wrong with Bitcoin, basically, the rest of the market will probably suffer as well, because it’s the granddaddy. And whatever’s going on with that it’s going to trickle down. So then when he came back out, and announced that Tesla was no longer going to be accepting it, that also dropped the price heavily. And on the same exact day, I believe vitalik had been air dropped a couple of weeks before, I believe something called Sheba. He knew I’ve not heard if you sure if you’d heard about that. It’s, there’s a lot of dog coins now. Because of Doge being popular, and especially on binance. There’s like, there’s dog coins and meme coins popping up by the hundreds now. So she but he knew had been gaining a lot of notoriety. And apparently, the creators of that had air dropped half of the value to metallic. So they essentially gave him about $8 billion.
Phil Salter 58:06
That sounds kind of vaguely familiar. Yeah,
Cryptopher Robin 58:08
yeah. So on the same day that Ilan musk announced that Tesla is no longer going to be doing this, the talent pulled out $1 billion worth of liquidity and donated it, which is great. But those are two big huge things to the market. That happened on the exact same day. And I believe it was two or three days later, that China announced that they were going to be cracking down on cryptocurrencies for like the fifth time. And various countries will always make these announcements and crash the market. And then it never really follows through. And then the market recovers, because everyone’s not in panic mode again. But that’s something that happened within about a three or four day span. So huge announcements like that. And the market fell by like 75%. I mean, like, the the total value locked in the market was probably like $2.7 trillion, or something like that. And easily a trillion dollars was lost from the market within like, a day and a half. Wow. Yeah.
Phil Salter 59:08
That’s amazing. That’s crazy. I mean, it’s funny, because it’s, I don’t know, it’s funny, but it’s interesting. It’s interesting that what we’re looking at here is if enough time passes, was that I said, That’s some funny shit. No, but I mean, we’re talking about if enough time passes, this continues to prove itself as a concept, you know, cryptocurrencies in this like decentralized finances and stuff like that. It’s just like the stock market. It’s been around for Serbia time, it has not been a thing forever, right. It’s what like, early 1900s I don’t even know when this thing started. This is, I don’t know the history, but it’s not like it’s been around for even hundreds of years, right, let alone
Cryptopher Robin 59:50
through New York Stock Exchange, probably like late 1800s, early 19. Okay, something
Phil Salter 59:56
like that. Like it’s only so old. But
Cryptopher Robin 59:59
let’s talk about ownership is, you know, many, many hundreds of years old for sure. Okay.
Phil Salter 1:00:04
I’ll give you that. I don’t know. But that makes sense. You know what I mean? But I’m saying like, let’s say, for instance, the New York Stock Exchange, you know, that’s, that’s where we’re commonly trading on correct. That’s a, that’s something that people just have, you know, for, generally speaking, just say, Hey, I have faith in this thing. This is proven itself. There’ll be dips, right? There’ll be drops, there’s, like, you know, recessions. And that’s that, like you said earlier, like, it’s time to buy, especially if you believe in the long term trajectory, you know, that for, you know, past performance is not proof of any future thing, but you can kind of have a surmount of faith. And so you’re saying when this happened with cryptocurrency, I’m sure a lot of people that really have bought in really, like capitalized on that is my guess.
DefyFri 1:00:48
super interesting is, like the philosophy of how people can be as traders, for example, like you could tell somebody about aetherium for a straight year, right? You could start telling them about it when it was $300. And you could tell them that it’s 500 600,000. And now it’s up to like, what? 20 $600? Right? But what they’ll say is, you’ll talk to them when it’s that or they’ll say, what is that? 3000? They’ll see a dip down to 26. It’ll have a sharp correction, right? We’ll be like, Oh, yeah. See, that’s why I didn’t invest in that. See that volatile cryptocurrency you can’t trust that it’s like, but man, I told you to buy it when it was $300. Like, yeah, lost anything. You know, it’s Yeah, people are, and it’s a confirmation bias for what you believe you want, you’re looking for things to confirm that belief. Exactly. And it’s like that you but like you say, you know, Robin was saying it’s counterintuitive, sometimes you see a dip and you do get scared, am I losing all my money? Well, if you took some profits, on a Green Day, when things are up, you might have some more money to put back in on a down day, knowing that it will go back up from there, you know, it’s just you have to create your own strategy that makes sense. And you have to stick with it against your own feelings sometimes, because sometimes your feelings can be very wrong and can make you do silly things in your trading. Yeah, I
Phil Salter 1:02:04
did it. So I think we’re logical, but honestly, that so often daily, we’re making illogical choices against like facts and information, it’s really hard not to get emotions involved, especially when it comes to your money and investing. And you can, like you said, you have a strategy, and I can just go out the window, you know, if you don’t, right. And if you haven’t really, you know, thought hard and like, put pour some discipline behind it.
Cryptopher Robin 1:02:27
That’s something that you know, someone who’s a little newer to this still, like actually dipping their toes fully in at this point, I’m still learning new things about how I want my, you know, how I want to be as a trader and a buyer and an investor. So like, for instance, when we’re talking about, you know, aetherium if it’s going to cost me $60, to try and sell, you know, $300 worth of Bitcoin, so I can take a $20 profit,
Phil Salter 1:02:56
it’s not worth it, you know, yeah, that’s a lot of work for very little pay,
Cryptopher Robin 1:02:59
right. And so like, it’s, it’s worth it to do the day trading type stuff if you’re playing with huge amounts of money, because if you, you know, if the price fluctuates by a couple dollars, but you own, you know, $20 million worth, well, you can flip that real quick. And then you know, make a couple grand very easily or a couple 100 grand, depending on like how big the dip is. But with someone who has like a small amount, and it really is only worth playing the speculator market and just hoping that it kind of goes up. In the same way, like, I have some different things that I’ve bought in where I’m like, Okay, I’ve got enough of it, where now it’s like if I was to watch and the price does go up to a high amount, where I feel like you know, it’s a psychologically satisfying number, like let’s say, something’s been hovering at like seven cents, but now it hits like 25 cents. To me, those are that’s like a 10 is a psychologically satisfying number. things with zeros and fives are psychologically satisfying. So you figure if something hits an all time high, with a psychologically satisfying number, there’s a good chance it could go up a little more, but there’s a good chance, especially when something shoots up three or four times. There’s a good correction probably coming back into that and you’re probably gonna find like something a little more stable, maybe around 1314 cents or something. But had you sold one it was 25. Now you have that to put back in, when it dips and buy more. If you don’t ever watch the market like that, then you’re never gonna have a chance to buy the dip.
Phil Salter 1:04:31
Yeah, I think that’s the thing. I’m realizing it just takes so much time and energy and knowledge and research all these things. If you really want to, like whether you’re dealing with like, you know, a theory or if you’re dealing with just like stocks, you know, it’s just it’s it’s a lot you know, and it’s not if you can’t really do it right like you probably should just buy things that you feel like are long term and they kind of look away for a while
Cryptopher Robin 1:04:56
you don’t I mean, in that really is the best way to go for anyone. Who’s not willing to get really deep into this? Because if you’re if you’re worried about it, and you’re watching it all the time, and you’re also not playing with enough of it, you’re gonna be obsessing over like 20 bucks. Yeah, exactly. Oh, my God, you know, my $300 is worth $280. Now, you know,
Phil Salter 1:05:18
I mean, that’s kind of where I’m at. But I’m getting out of that, like more obsessive part of over a very little amount of money and like, what it’s doing, because I very new to like, even like buying individual stocks in the past I, you know, I’ve like a 401k. And that goes into like an index fund, I have some stuff I do like, and I don’t know if you know, have heard of betterment, where you can, like, put money in like index funds and things like that. But I was like, I want to try some of this stock, you know, individual stock stuff. I don’t care if some people say it’s too risky. I’m gonna just see what I can learn, you know, and I started with, hey, I’m gonna do $100 and just say, and just see what I could do with that for two months. And if I lose it all, hey, it’s $100 little course, Crash Course and intro to investing. Of course, that grew within a week to $1,000 I have in there and I’m just like, I didn’t like the whole thing of emotions and like, not sticking to your script or your plan. But I was looking at it constantly watching, like what was happening, and it was just, like, exhausting. At first. It was exciting. And they got very exhausting. Yeah, yeah. So it’s killing. Yeah. So
Cryptopher Robin 1:06:17
yeah. leverage the value of your time.
Phil Salter 1:06:21
It’s not worth the time.
Cryptopher Robin 1:06:22
Yeah, it’s like, especially, you know, someone who makes like a decent amount of money is it worth like, sitting around like, watching, you know, that your your value has increased by $100 that day? And like, you could have worked for two or three hours? And you know, made more than that?
Phil Salter 1:06:36
So yeah, for sure. So I mean, it’s, it’s been a learning process. And it’s been interesting. And that’s the point of my podcast is learning about finances and, and taking it head on and not being intimidated or afraid by it, you know, so good. Very, and I honestly, cryptocurrency is something I’ve just avoided, because it’s just like, oh, seems like too much. But that’s why I was so excited. When we got connected through that that Facebook group ran is a podcasting Facebook group and you’re looking to talk about cryptocurrency? I was like, dude, that’s a lot on the line with all the things I’m about learning about financial principles, and taking on things that intimidate me, you know, so
DefyFri 1:07:14
I wondered about other projects, you’re just gonna say, you could always have us on again, and we’d be happy to do deep dives into like, one specific example of crypto or defy so Oh, yeah, for sure. You start learning and Want to learn more?
Phil Salter 1:07:27
A lot of stuff. Awesome. I appreciate that. I mean, is there anything you guys want to plug? Like as far as your YouTube and like, I believe your podcast is at this point, a YouTube channel? Correct?
Cryptopher Robin 1:07:39
As of right now, yes. And I’m gonna I’m gonna be working on like, it’s pretty hard right now. Like, I think on my on my schedule, right now, I have about 290 hours of work for the month. So I’m trying really hard to like leverage my time with the podcast, because it’s something that I’m very dedicated to now, but it also doesn’t pay anything.
Phil Salter 1:08:01
Well, that makes me feel even better. You took the time to be on this with me. So thank you.
Cryptopher Robin 1:08:05
It’s, you know, I really am I’m really enjoying it. I’m actually like turning one of the rooms in my house into a podcast studio. That’s awesome.
Phil Salter 1:08:14
Yes, fantastic. Yeah,
Cryptopher Robin 1:08:16
join it. But you know, it’s like really about leveraging your time right now. But at the same time, it’s like, this is something that we want to do. So I do plan on either getting it on to anchor or you know, buzzsprout or something like that soon. We do have 11 episodes as of about an hour ago. I’m talking with you got the last episode edited, and just got that up on YouTube. So I feel like we have a decent little like, grouping of shows where we can actually stick something up there. We’ll have enough for people to actually go through and check out if they like, you know if it piques their interest. So I feel like we’re kind of at that point now. are now only on YouTube right now. And that’s d phi.
DefyFri 1:08:59
Yes, d phi expectations on YouTube. I’m the phi fry on Twitter and Robin what’s your handle
Cryptopher Robin 1:09:07
crypto crypto for Robin, but it’s it’s spelled ROB en on my handle just because some other poser used to be Christopher Robin and got the URL
Phil Salter 1:09:23
it’s even badly said
Cryptopher Robin 1:09:27
yeah, they apparently they suspended that account who whoever that used to be? No, wow. That’s
Phil Salter 1:09:33
That’s crazy. And then if somewhat people want to check out shared steak, as well, right is a way to kind of like leverage their Ethereum correct.
DefyFri 1:09:44
Yes, shared steak.org. We are they should be back on Twitter soon, but their handle would be shared stake on Twitter as well. But yeah, feel free to check out shared state.org there’s lots of really good content and if you want to be a part of governance Go to forum dot shared stake.org
Phil Salter 1:10:03
awesome. And I’ll put these links in the show notes. And I’ll also be uploading a video version of this to YouTube on my channel there. And I’ll put that in the description as well, you know, your handles and where they can find you the your podcasts on YouTube as well, as you know, the other things you just mentioned with shared stake. You guys are awesome, it’s really cool to just kind of expand the network of people in the connections. That’s what I love about doing a podcast is just, it’s getting me to kind of go outside my comfort zone, learn things, and meet people, everyone is amazing that you meet in this world, if you give them enough time to get to give people time to, you know, to really get to know them and hear what they’re about. And you guys are incredibly interesting. And I really appreciate your time.
Cryptopher Robin 1:10:48
Yeah, I definitely like feel the same way about it too. Like everyone we interview, it’s always like such a different experience. And it’s you know, we all learn from each other, which is, this is our first time actually guests on a podcast. So it’s nice to not have to be in control of any
edit this after.
Phil Salter 1:11:09
I mean, honestly, I do it pretty minimal editing. So we’ll see it pretty gonna be pretty raw, you know. And it’s a question of just kind of being being raw, but also being lazy. So. But honestly, you guys are awesome. Thanks so much for your time. Yeah, it’s authentic is what it is. It’s raw. Very good. So if anybody wants to, if anyone has questions, I could really see people coming up with questions. As you listen to this, you can email me at No Better Time podcast@gmail.com. If you go to anchor.fm slash no better time, you can even leave a voice memo, which I can respond to. And if you have questions for fryer Robin, you can ask them and I can forward on to them. And hey, who knows? If there’s a good question, good enough, maybe I can get them back on, you know, to answer it directly. We’ll never you never know. But you know,
Cryptopher Robin 1:11:59
definitely feel like if they if anyone wants to tweet at us as well. Those handles in the video as well. So feel free to do that we’re pretty open. The good thing about defy again, is that it’s a pretty open community. I mean, this, this is one of the interesting things about it to a lot of the people that you would think would not be at arm’s length are at arm’s length. You know? And When’s the last time you were able to talk to the CEO of Bank of America? You can do that in defy?
Phil Salter 1:12:28
Wow. Yeah. That’s amazing. It’s interesting. It’s a combination of just like, kind of like privacy, but also just like openness and like community. It’s really cool. Yeah, it is. It’s a very neat experience. Awesome. Yeah. So and honestly, if people if you Thank you for listening, if anyone is listening, I know there’s some. There’s a few. And I think please keep doing that. I would love ratings and reviews on Apple podcasts. Subscribe, wherever podcasts are available wherever you listen. And thanks again guys. You guys have a great night. Yeah, you too. Thanks again.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
No Better Time 